This is the verse that, for quite some time, kept me from finally accepting the idea that there is no consciousness in death. It seemed to support the idea that Paul believed that to be dead (absent from the body) was to have a disembodied conscious existence in the presence of the Lord.

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The thing that began to crack my understanding of this verse was a quote I read from E.W. Bullinger. I gave it earlier but will here give it again.
 

• It is little less than a crime for anyone to pick out certain words and frame them into a sentence, not only disregarding the scope and context, but ignoring the other words in the verse, and quote the words 'absent from the body, present with the Lord' with the view of dispensing with the hope of the Resurrection (which is the subject of the whole passage) as though it were unnecessary; and as though 'present with the Lord' is obtainable without it.

 

This quote caused me to closely examine the context of "absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord". Could it be true, I asked myself, that Paul is speaking of the resurrection and not a disembodied existence in heaven? If so, I have been misunderstanding this passage my whole life. Was Bullinger right?  Is the resurrection the subject of the whole passage?
 

I wouldn't say it's THE subject. The subject is an apologetic of Paul's apostolic ministry. However, the Jewish paradigm of death, and the resurrection, informs everything he says. I think the contextual framework for understanding Paul's line of thinking and language should begin, at the very least, in 4:7.
 

• But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, to show that the transcendent power belongs to God and not to us. We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair; persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; always carrying in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies. For while we live we are always being given up to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus may be manifested in our mortal flesh. So death is at work in us, but life in you. (2 Cor 4:7-12)

 

The "earthen vessels" would be our physical bodies.
 

• Since we have the same spirit of faith as he had who wrote, "I believed, and so I spoke," we too believe, and so we speak, knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence. (2 Cor 4:13-14)

 

The phrase "raise us also with Jesus" obviously refers to the resurrection because the raising of "us" is equated to the raising of Jesus. God will raise "us" (Paul or maybe the Apostles) and bring "us" with "you" (the Corinthians to whom he is writing) into his presence. Notice that the "into his presence" occurs AFTER the raising.
 

• So we do not lose heart. Though our outer nature is wasting away, our inner nature is being renewed every day. For this slight momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, because we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen; for the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal. (2 Cor 4:16-18)

 

I submit that the "things that are unseen" involve the resurrection; that's what he's been talking about. The "slight momentary affliction" is the present life in the mortal body.
 

• For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. Here indeed we groan, and long to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven, so that by putting it on we may not be found naked. For while we are still in this tent, we sigh with anxiety; not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. (2 Cor 5:1-4)

 

If we die, God has a body prepared for us waiting in the heavens. We could call it a "spiritual body" commensurate with Paul's language in 1 Corinthians 15. I do not believe that there is literally a "soul-less" body in heaven, waiting for my death. The term "from heaven" is an idiom that merely means that it is from God. The term, "spiritual body" does not mean that it is not physical, it means that it is a body that is animated by "spirit". The body we now possess is animated by "soul". (For more info on this subject see here.) We long to possess that spiritual body, not that we would be "naked" - i.e. disembodied. The spiritual body, in spite of the fact that it is spoken of as distinct from this "earthly tent" that we inhabit now, is not completely different from it, but is spoken of as "further clothed". What "is mortal is swallowed up by life." So it's not a one-for-one exchange but a change (not an exchange) to that which we currently posses.
 

The theory of a disembodied existence after death does not account for this data. Paul says that while we are in this mortal body, we sigh with anxiety, not that we would be disembodied, but that we would be FURTHER embodied.
 

• He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. (2 Cor 5:5)

 

"...this very thing..." is the resurrection - not that we would be found naked, but that we would be further clothed. God has given us the Spirit as a guarantee that we WILL be further clothed.
 

NOTHING that Paul has thus far said leads us to believe he is talking about going to heaven when we die because "he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also..." All indications are that he is explicitly speaking of the resurrection of the dead.
 

• So we are always of good courage; we know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, (2 Cor 5:6)

 

Why are we of good courage? Because we have the Spirit - which is the guarantee that we will be resurrected. Now we come to the words that create the conflict. Home in the body/away from the Lord - and the following:
 

• We are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. (2 Cor 5:6)

 

In light of all the above, and in light of other Pauline passages on this same subject - see below - how can Paul be saying, "We would rather die and go to heaven (disembodied/naked) and be present with the Lord"? That interpretation is VERY disjunct from everything he has previously said! It's obvious - to me, anyway - that we need to change our understanding of what Paul means when he says, "away from the body and at home with the Lord." Commensurate with what he's already said, we need to understand it in a way that means, "We would rather be away from the body (dead) and at home with the Lord (resurrected)."
 

The disjunct between the typical understanding of verse 6 and what Paul has said in the previous verses becomes more acute when we consider other Pauline passages that deal with the same subject.

 

 

1 Corinthians 15

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The first passage I want to compare is 1 Corinthians 15. I ask you to read the whole chapter. I'm not going to write it all down, but I'm going to emphasize certain things. First of all, most scholars believe 1st and 2nd Corinthians were written very close together, maybe as close as a year. Secondly, before either of them were written, Paul had already preached and taught there. This is known in scholarly language as the "Apostolic Parousia". What that implies is that the letters are secondary, he had already personally taught the Corinthians in great detail previously. As a matter of fact, we know from Acts 18:11 that Paul taught at Corinth for a year and six months. This leads us to the conclusion that what is written in the two letters to the Corinthians is a very abbreviated form of what he spent a year and a half teaching them in person. So he writes in abbreviated form, knowing that they would already understand his paradigm and language. Unfortunately, WE do not have the benefit of the Apostolic Parousia, so we must infer Paul's paradigm and language as best we can. Having said that, I believe the position I am arguing is pretty clear. It's just that CENTURIES of obfuscation have taken their toll and it can be a very difficult thing to change paradigms and consequently read and interpret something from a completely different set of presuppositions. Anyway, 1 Corinthians 15 is explicitly about the resurrection. 1 Cor 15:3-6:

 

• For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep.

 

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING is that Jesus rose from the dead. He died, he rose, and his resurrection is verifiable by hundreds of witnesses. Notice also that those who have died Paul characterizes as having "fallen asleep".
 

• Now if Christ is preached as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised; if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified of God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised. If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. (1 Cor 15:12-17)

 

Paul is REALLY concerned with Christ being raised from the dead. EVERYTHING depends on it.

 

• Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. (1 Cor 15:18)

 

If Christ has not been raised, then there is no such thing as resurrection, and those who have died in Christ have PERISHED. Why would he say, "perished" if those who have died are present with the Lord in heaven?
 

• If the dead are not raised, "Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die." (1 Cor 15:32b)

 

This is only true if disembodied-existence-after-death in the presence of God DOESN'T exist. If I go to heaven when I die, even if the dead are NOT raised, I STILL would NOT "eat and drink, for tomorrow we die" - because I want to go to heaven when I die. The belief in disembodied-existence-after-death in the presence of God renders this argument nonsensical.
 

• The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. As was the man of dust, so are those who are of the dust; and as is the man of heaven, so are those who are of heaven. Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven. (1 Cor 15:47-49)

 

The first man (Adam) was created from the dust of the ground. Thus, even though he is "the son of God" (Luke 3:38) he is "a man of dust". The second man (Christ) is "from heaven." This is said because his father is literally God (Luke 1:35). I sometimes say that I am Irish. This does not mean I'm actually from Ireland, what it means is I can trace my ancestry back to Ireland. So also Jesus can trace his ancestry back to heaven. Now we bear the image of the man of dust, that is, we are mortal. But we shall bear the image of the man of heaven, that is, resurrected and physically immortal.
 

Also, the resurrected Christ ascended to heaven. He will return from heaven, bringing his reward with him. This idea is paralleled in 2 Cor 5:2:
 

• Here indeed we groan, and long to be clothed with our dwelling FROM HEAVEN, so that by putting it on we may not be found naked.

 

We see similar concepts and language here. Our savior is "from heaven" and our "dwelling" (spiritual body - i.e. resurrection body) is "from heaven".
 

• For this perishable nature must put on the imperishable, and this mortal nature must put on immortality. (1Cor 15:53)

• Here indeed we groan, and long to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven, so that by putting it on we may not be found naked. (2 Cor 5:3)

• When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory." (1Cor 15:53-54)

• For while we are still in this tent, we sigh with anxiety; not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. (2 Cor 5:4)

 

Obviously, the similarities in thought and language between the the two passages leads one to conclude that Paul is speaking of the resurrection rather than going to heaven at death in 2 Corinthians 5, because the resurrection is the explicit subject in 1 Corinthians 15. These two passages were written to the same group of people within a short space of time. To interpret 2 Corinthians 5 to be referring to "going to heaven when you die" puts it in opposition to 1 Corinthians 15. Why would Paul use the same language to refer to two different things when writing to the same people a year or two apart?
 

So we are left with our suggested meaning for 2 Corinthians 5:8: "We would rather be away from the body (dead) and at home with the Lord (resurrected)."

 

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

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• But we would not have you ignorant, brethren, concerning those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

Notice that those who are dead are "asleep".
 

Since we believe that Jesus died and rose again (cf. 1 Cor 15:3-6 and 2 Cor 4:13-14), God, through Jesus, will bring with him those who have died. Does this mean that those who have died are now in heaven with Jesus and come from heaven with him when he comes? If you already believe this then you would see it from that perspective. Fortunately, Paul clarifies what he means:
 

• For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord

 

Jesus descends from heaven, not Jesus and those who have fallen asleep, but Jesus only. The DEAD in Christ - those who are "asleep"  - RISE FIRST. THEN the living are translated. This passage is written from the point of view of the living - "WE who are alive, who are LEFT" - who are translated AFTER the dead are raised. It is from this perspective that Jesus brings with him those that are asleep. As far as the living are concerned, the moment at which they are caught up and see Jesus, the dead have already been resurrected, and so the dead are "with him".
 

It is not the purpose of this paper to discuss whether or not the "catching up" (not, "catching away") is literal or figurative. The point is, "catching up" is in the context of the resurrection. It is in the context of the resurrection of the dead-in-Christ and the translation of the living-in-Christ that Paul says, "...so we shall always be WITH THE LORD."
 

I would suggest that this is what Paul is referring to when, in 2 Cor 5:8, he says, "...at home WITH THE LORD." Paul did not expect to be "with the Lord" immediately upon his death. For Paul, "with the Lord" occurs at the resurrection.
 

This would also correlate to 2 Cor 4:14" "...knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence." We come into his presence at the resurrection, not at death.
 

One of the hindrances that must be overcome in order to properly understand "away from the body and at home with the Lord" is the presupposition that "away from the body" and "at home with the Lord" occur at the same time. Immediately upon death, one is present with the Lord. This is what most of us have been taught, and this is what we see when we read the passage in question. What we see is something like, "to be away from the body IS TO BE at home with the Lord." But that is not what this says. It says, "away from the body AND at home with the Lord." When I am out on the road and in a strange city, I desire to be away from that city and at home with my family. I can't get from the strange city to my home instantaneously, there is an indeterminate amount of time that is required between "away from the strange city AND at home with my family." Yes, Paul is not being very explicit here, at least from our point of view, but he didn't need to be, he had spent a year and a half teaching the Corinthians in person, they knew what he meant.
 

Notice, "Therefore comfort one another with these words." The comfort is in relation to those who have died "that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope." Do we take comfort in the fact that immediately upon death, our loved one is in heaven in the presence of God? There is no hint of this. The comfort comes from the understanding that the dead will be raised. As Jesus said, "...he who believes in me will live even if he dies..." (John 11:25)
 

The result of our comparison of 1 Thessalonians to 2nd Corinthians is that we are again left with understanding that 2nd Corinthians means, "We would rather be away from the body (dead) and at home with the Lord (resurrected)." 

 

 

Philippians 1:23: "...to depart and be with Christ..."

Since this passage is also used to support the idea of disembodied existence in the presence of God after death, I will deal with it in the next link.

 

Another inference

Though not explicitly stated anywhere that I know of, I believe it's a reasonable inference to make that from the moment of death to the resurrection, from the subjective experience of the dead person, there is no awareness of time.
 

• "When his spirit (ruah) departs he returns to his earth; on that day his thoughts perish" (Psalm 146:4).

• "For there will be no work, nor reason, nor knowledge, nor wisdom in Sheol (the grave) where you are going" (Ecclesiastes 9:10).

• "Return, O LORD, save my life; rescue me because of your kindness, for among the dead no one remembers you." (Psalms 6:5-6)

 

It may be that this is what Paul had in mind when he said, "absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord." As soon as a person dies, the next thing they know, they are with the Lord in their resurrected body, though thousands of years may have passed. This is also what is suggested by speaking of death metaphorically as sleep. Although one wonders how far to push the metaphor..."To sleep, perchance to dream..."